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The stage was decorated with red-white-and-blue flowers. Enormous, pristine American flags were spotlighted and draped from the ceilings. We sat in darkness on our plush movie-theatre seats, heads tipped back as we watched the clips from “Saving Private Ryan” and “Band of Brothers” on the screens. The dramatic movies gave way to a montage of fighter jets, white picket fences, clean children playing in meadows and soldiers being welcomed home to weeping families while a beautiful young woman’s voice soared in patriotic song. We clutched pamphlets with Scripture verses superimposed over the American flag.
I was at church.
And, after a few years now in the USA, I had learned that this was just a bigger variation of the typical 4th of July service. The war had been declared just a few months earlier. The honour guard was escorted in, the bands played, the potato salad in the foyer waited in Tupperware containers and the youth group organized the fireworks in the church parking lot for the picnic. The sermon that morning was a treatise on why this war in Iraq met the criteria for being a Just War. Agreeing with the President – and your pastor – was a Biblical mandate. The Other was unaccountably evil, bent on destroying everything that God held dear – ideas like democracy and capitalism.
America is a Christian nation; therefore protecting America’s interests is clearly the Godly thing to do.
What about the rest of us, those of us that are not American? I wondered then.
Does God not care about me and the rest of the world because we are not American? Is America the new Chosen Nation, leaving the rest of us as the outsiders, earning a place at the table only insofar as we represent or protect the interests of the Chosen Ones?
Is America the hope of the world now?
Are they the shining city on a hill, here to school the rest of us in how God runs a country?
Is this the example that the rest of us are supposed to emulate without question or nuance?
It was in that season, those beginning moments of a new war, that the seeds of pacifism long scattered took root in my heart. My faith was leading me to abhor war and seek peace, to deeply respect and grieve for the world’s military and their families. My faith was leading me to regret the Canadian maple leaf tattooed proud on my skin because my country was no longer my first allegiance. My faith was leading me to an allegiance in the kingdom of God only, one that I understood as based on love without borders and a pro-life ethic that included the grown-ups.
But on all sides, my beloved friends and adopted community – the ones that I loved and knew to be good people, the community that loved me in all my faults and failings – felt compelled to war precisely because of their faith.
Did their faith lead them to this nationalism? Or was it due to the centuries of complex intertwining of faith and country that my neighbours simply couldn’t engage in politics without believing in a faith-based justification? Is nationalism simply worship?
It seemed to lead them to Mosaic laws of an eye for an eye, a belief that war would somehow end terrorism and evil. Defending the American way became defending their most holy faith.
As the years went by, every political position – and person – on both sides needed to be justified or vilified by the lens of co-opted Christian faith, leaving in its wake a shattered image of this tug-a-war Christ.
The flags in the pews were waved, people wept and prayed for victory. They rose to their feet, fervour in their eyes and voices, to sing loudly in praise of their homeland that had given them so many gifts.
There wasn’t a Cross to be seen in the building.
{ 60 comments… read them below or add one }
I love the verse “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!” Psalm 33:12. I did a quick search and wasn’t able to find where it says in the Bible that agreeing with the President is a Biblical mandate. That would certainly put the Iraqi citizens in a scary spot, when Saddam was still alive and in power. Not to mention Hitler, Stalin, and so forth.
I have a dear Iraqi friend, a Christian missionary who was able to flee Iraq, thanks to the aid of the United States. Christians are highly persecuted in the Middle East and being a Christian is a crime there. I’ve heard stories that would make a person’s heart break from this friend. She’s trying to get her family out of the country, now. I detest war, too. I’m not a pacifist, but it is heartbreaking that sometimes it’s what we end up with. In many cases, however, America has been able to make a difference for the cause of liberty for those who would not have otherwise tasted it.
As much as I love America and am proud to be an American, my first allegiance is with Christ- the solid rock. “Did their faith lead them to nationalism?” That is a great question. It makes me think of the parallels between our freedom as Christians and our freedom as American’s. Maybe its freedom for all that we’re seeking. Religious and political freedom. I’d love to see it happen.
Thanks for your comment, Erin. I’m in agreement with you about obedience as a biblical mandate (I admit to being a bit cheeky with that point). I am also in complete agreement about untenable, unbearable situations around the world – prayers for each of them, indeed. I am also proud and thankful to be Canadian – we both enjoy tremendous freedoms and I don’t want to seem like I am advocating that we take those for granted. Rather, are we giving those freedoms/history/legacy/nation the throne of our hearts? And your point about how we’re all looking for freedom? Right on. I think that’s definitely part of the equation here, for sure.
Sarah
This is all too true and a bit scary. I’m thankful for my church community, as we don’t focus on the sides, or preaching which side I need to belong to. And yet, it becomes so hard to speak to older generations about an allegience to a Kingdom much more grand, outside of any “isms” we find here.
It is hard. This is actually a compilation of many evangelical churches that we have attended over the years (I was in the States for 8 years), not just one specific church. And it is a tough conversation to have – but necessary. Thank you for your comment, Kamille – I appreciate it.
- S.
yes! these are my thoughts exactly!
“My faith was leading me to an allegiance in the kingdom of God only, one that I understood as based on love without borders and a pro-life ethic that included the grown-ups.”
YES, YES, YES
There is so much to think about here.
I do not believe that it is wrong to celebrate or embrace or support one’s country. However, to embrace it to the exclusion of the global community we have become a part of makes us all lose sight of our heavenly citizenship.
We live in a day and age where we are no longer isolated by borders and oceans. It is a new time in the life of our world where we are daily exposed to those different than us, in physical appearance, life experience, and cultural customs. Being American exclusive builds a wall that hinders ministry.
My husband spent 15 months in Iraq only to come home and say, “I don’t believe that democracy will work there.”
Our way of life (or the one we’ve allowed ourselves to become accustomed to) isn’t necessarily the best or the only way. It’s just a way.
Embracing who we are (or at least who we used to be) – a people who love freedom – shouldn’t be discouraged. However, American freedom shouldn’t be the brand of freedom we confess and identify with, but rather the Freedom found in the gospel, in the work of Christ.
Yes! I agree that it isn’t wrong to love and take comfort in one’s motherland. But, just as the tiny desert town where I grew up will always be home, I would never tell anyone it was the only place to live and every other city should try to be like YV.
I do love this land in which I live, because it is home and it is familiar and, at least at this point in history, we do enjoy more freedoms than many other areas of the world. But I say that because it’s what I know… I don’t think my friends who live in other countries believe they are less beloved of God because they weren’t born under a star spangled banner. Nationalism should never eclipse the truth of freedom in Christ, which is freely poured out, regardless of land or region or nation.
I agree. I do celebrate my Canadian heritage (including my military heritage as the proud grand-daughter of a now-deceased veteran) and seek to honour the sacrifices made by so many on our behalf. But it’s not my first allegiance, it’s not the lens that I see the world through anymore. War is a very high price to ask another soul to pay, you’re right. And borders and nations move daily, they are a shifting sand. Thank you for your thoughtful comment, I appreciate it.
- S.
Sarah, I love these questions. They need to be discussed.
As a military wife, I obviously can’t call myself a pacifist, but I’ve struggled much over the past couple years with my strong-held belief that Love is the the thing that conquers, and the reality of war and deployments and government.
I simply can’t look at our nation, as thankful as I am for the freedoms we do have here, and say that this relatively new experiment in government is now God’s way. I can’t teach my children that we are somehow holier or more important to our Father because we were born on American soil. My husband and I have had many talks, mulling through all of it, even while he sits across the globe working on military computer networks in Afghanistan…
I struggle.
That means a lot to me, Ashleigh, for several reasons. First, I value your insight as a thoughtful woman of God. And second, as a military family, I am also thankful that you “get” what I’m saying here. I’m not denigrating the military in the least. And my heart is very much with you and your husband as you whether this current deployment and the years to come. Thank you for understanding my heart and coming alongside me in the struggle.
-S.
I’ll never forget sitting in a little country church on the 4th of July, listening to a man dressed up as Uncle Sam recite a poem titled “I Am the Spirit of America.” If I had been bolder and more confident in my position as daughter-in-law, I would have walked out then and there. Not because I hate my country or the military, but because I find nationalism completely inappropriate within a church service. We are supposed to be there to forget ourselves and focus on God, remembering that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for we are all one in Christ.
Thank you for this post.
That’s a good point, Joy. Are we our nationality in the eyes of Christ? I believe that God celebrates our differences in terms of culture (our various art, music, dance, myths etc.) but as far as seeing us by our nationality, our gender etc. I think that there are fewer categories and boundaries than we may believe. Thanks for that.
-S.
It all clicked for me when I visited a church in Germany that had a German flag next to a cross. It bugged me, until I realized that it was just the same thing we do in America. Then I was just sad.
What really troubles me is the close association between evangelicals in America and our military. We can’t even have a realistic discussion in some circles about the teachings of Jesus concerning our enemies because we’re so entangled with the military and we fear we may offend someone. It’s so much easier to just offend the guy who died so that he could forgive us after we keep offending him. At the very least we need to ask whether or not militarism is a viable option any Christian can support.
I remember how much I appreciated your post on these same topics a few months ago, Ed. (You should dig those out and post the links over here.)
And yes….you are talking about a point that was removed body and soul from the original piece! I did have a paragraph in there about that but thought I’d stepped on enough toes for 600 words.
It is a conversation that I hope gains momentum.
Thanks for your thoughts, as always.
- S.
Thanks for your kind words. I don’t usually drop in links to my blog like this, but since you asked for it and I’m not quite sure which one you meant, I’ll drop in a couple:
http://inamirrordimly.com/2010/08/18/eds-christian-survival-guide-syncretism/
http://inamirrordimly.com/2009/08/31/why-christians-need-to-talk-about-war/
http://inamirrordimly.com/2010/10/05/general-god-captain-jesus-and-sergeant-spirit-christianity-and-military-metaphors/
http://inamirrordimly.com/2009/05/24/self-sacrifice-the-death-of-jesus-and-laying-down-ones-life-for-another-on-memorial-day/
Oh I’m so glad you shared these. Not being able to discuss Jesus’ teachings on our enemies – YES. Exactly.
Looking forward to reading these..thanks.
Have you read my mind, Sarah?
My husband and I have had so many conversations along these lines, and though I do dearly love the freedoms living in this country affords, I don’t think a church service is the appropriate venue for such things.
Have you read the book The Myth of a Christian Nation? So eye-opening.
I have read that book, yes. Very, very good. Another couple that I really appreciated around these topics were “Jesus for President” by Shane Claiborne and “Jesus Wants to Save Christians” by Rob Bell. And of course, almost anything by Jim Wallis.
-S.
“a pro-life ethic that included the grown-ups”
Yes! Amen.
Thank you for this post.
So… I think Faith/Nationalism is actually a bigger issue. I believe that one could probably substitute King James Version Bible or women only wearing dresses. Why must we add qualifiers to our Faith? Is Christ not enough? I believe this is the heart problem.
I also don’t believe war is good but I believe that it is sadly a necessary part of the world in which we live. I’m thankful for a country with a volunteer military where I don’t have to enlist if I believe it to be wrong.
I appreciate the questions you presented and the fact that there may not be any black and white answer.
You’re right, Zach. No black-and-white answer. I suppose that is why I’m an uneasy pacifist, still grappling with how that plays out practically in the world.
-S.
I was talking about it with my sister and was trying to reconcile these questions and one scenario came to mind. If I was walking down the street and saw my friend being roughed up by three guys because, say, he’s gay, would I defend him? I know I would, for any reason. I personally could not walk by and hope that I wasn’t the one God sent to help my friend. While I love all four because Christ loved a hopeless sinner like me, I’m not afraid to take the necessary action to stop something that could very well end badly.
Now how this translates into real life, I’m not positive. As I told my sister this afternoon, the reason I have not joined the military yet is my brain’s inability to completely reason this out to the fullest extent. And there I am, still as unsure as before.
I realize this really isn’t even what you were really talking about, but just some thoughts the post brought about.
Zach,
Interesting question. I generally share a burgeoning view of passifism. That being said, I’m reading a book about the ruckus in Zimbabwe in the early 2000′s. The story centers around a Jewish family that fled the holocaust. It begs the question regarding genocide. What then? I know that’s not the point of this blog post, especially when it seems that our Nationalism is focused more on our “interests” than protecting those that are the subject of genocide (see, e.g. “The Devil Came on Horseback”).
I think I’m off topic here.
I find that that is the example that men often bring up (My husband certainly does, as well.) when discussing the practical application of pacifism. I’m not sure how it translates into real life either (mainly because war is rarely as unmuddied a situation as that involving altruistic motives as well as geo-political and money-and-power-based motives as well. But yes, those are very similar thoughts that we’ve been yakking about here as well.
-S.
I’m with you!
Love wins … saying that anyone wins in a war is like saying someone wins in an earthquake.
And … just like I don’t care to see nationalism, I also don’t need to see a cross in church. Many people died on crosses, there was nothing unique about that … it’s Jesus’ resurrection that was unique. I find more hope and have more faith when I focus on life, not death.
Very good point, Janet. Thank you.
-S.
As I came back here to read the other comments, I reread my comment and it doesn’t sound quite like I wanted it (hate when that happens) so to clarify … the way you wrote and ended this piece is powerful. The last line totally drives home the point that the service had more focus on our country … than on Jesus.
oooh i have chills… there wasn’t a cross to be seen in the building. i think that pretty much sums it up sarah. i’m with you on this.
several years ago, i attended the christian peace witness for iraq in dc with a diverse group of hundreds of christians. we worshiped at the national cathedral and processed to the white house, candles in hand and prayers on our lips.
i went with a friend, who was interning at a christian camp. her boss expressly forbid from wearing any sort of tee shirt or hoodie inscribed with the camp logo. the only other time employees were warned against wearing the logo was if they were drinking.
public drunkenness and peace–apparently the two things in christendom worth being against.
Wow! That speaks volumes, Suzannah.
-S.
i’m with emily – “there wasn’t a cross to be seen in the building” made me release my breath i had been holding the entire post. thank you for writing this – it echoes so much of my heart lately.
This is such a sticky issue for so many…I am a mama that abhors violence, war and the idea that America is blessed by God to the exclusion of other countries who is facing two of her children wanting to join the military.
I think of the verse in Ecclesiastes that says there is a time for war and a time for peace…just not sure how to reconcile that with the God of love and mercy that I know. Great post!
It is so complex, Melissa. I have often wondered about that very thing, myself. Praying for you and your two kids as you make decisions and support each other. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it.
-S.
yes, agree with others…so much to process…good, good stuff
have you (or others here) read any of Jim Wallis’ stuff? I’ve read ‘A Call to Conversion’ which was written a long time ago…or I see ‘God’s Politics’ and ‘Rediscovering Values’ are some newer ones…i loved ‘A Call to Conversion’ because it took a hard line and yet was so full of love.
isn’t that how Jesus walked? the bottom line has never been easy with both attending an anabaptist college and having married into a family with strong anabaptist roots and then many in my family who served in the military, but there is definitely a place of perspective we all need to have that you are talking about here, Sarah.
Bless you for speaking it with courage and strength and clarity:)
Yes! Jim Wallis is a great thinker on Christianity and American politics. While God’s Politics was a bit over-generalized (in my opinion. US politics are far too nuanced), I really, really recommend The Great Awakening. A GREAT read.
That is a great book. Totally agree. The tough thing with much of Jim Wallis’ stuff is that he writes so specifically about the USA’s two-party system that it isn’t always as applicable for us non-Americans, wanting to discuss the same ideas but not as entrenched in the details of American policy/history etc. but still great stuff.
Yes, love Jim Wallis! I agree with Nish – The Awakening is a bit stronger (God’s Politics was, I think, a bit more middle-of-the-road to try to bring some more conservative voices to a consensus, a bit more bottom-line agreements). But, if you can believe it, haven’t read A Call to Conversion yet! I’ll add that to my library queue now. And you weren’t kidding – that is quite a balance you’re having to strike!
-S.
Amber and I have talked about this a lot. I grew up in a large southern baptist church. The red brick kind with white columns out front. During any national holiday, they unfurled the American flag that was large enough to cover the ceiling. Republicans were good (Libertarians were better). Democrats were evil, hated our country, hated babies, hated marriage, hated liberty, even hated seersucker (if’n you can believe that). I think its a typical church upbringing here in the south.
Honestly, I’m not even sure if the sentiment found in my church was one of Nationalism. Instead, it seemed to be more right leaning, more representative of certain political ideologies–the patriotic ones, if you know what I mean. Somehow I believe that tying Christ’s church so inextricably to a political ideology cheapens him and his teachings. I don’t want my salvation figure to occupy the same place of importance as any political ideology, nationalistic idea, or politician. It just makes the whole thing seem more sordid.
Render unto Caesar, I say…
“Rend unto Caesar…”
Yes. That.
Yes, I see what you mean. My husband (who is American from the heartland) read your comment and really agreed with this, having a similar experience.
Render unto Caesar definitely seems to be the crux of the issue here…and the balance is hard to strike.
-S.
Definitely thought-provoking, Sarah! Thank you. // I think this works with some of my quiet time thoughts on the difference between a Spirit of Nationalistic Pride versus national pride. These thoughts are still raw, but what I sensed was that the first one aims to crush everything and anyone in its way of bigger and better. We see dictatorships rise up out of that. Great division. There’s no mercy or compassion. It’s about over-powering and overwhelming. // The latter, for me, has a kingdom fragrance, because it’s about belonging and not at the expense of others. It also has room for compassion and mercy.// As a follower of Christ I better know the difference.
Now I quite like that idea, Idelette (not that I’m surprised since you came up with it…). “Spirit of Nationalistic Pride” vs. national pride. I think that the problem is that we have failed to identify the differences between the two and so have embraced the spirit of it (the overwhelming, over powering, money driven, worship sucking version) instead of one motivated by mercy and compassion. Good distinction and very thoughtful insight.
-S.
I think its seeing the “America as a god” church culture through the eyes of a non-American that makes it even more gross and embarrassing.
Sarah, you speak straight to my heart. An uneasy pacifist here too – I wonder if it will ever be easy? I doubt it. Its so entirely counter to human wisdom, you know? I don’t know if you saw my post on MLK Jr earlier in Jan (here on DS) but it goes right along with this. His book Strength to Love would be a really good one to add to your study of this if you haven’t read it yet (it’s rather short but wow – power packed).
I think the issue is that mainstream Christianity is very steeped in tradition, much of which isn’t necessarily in the bible. You’ve only scratched the surface here (as you know
) but I love this discussion because I feel like no one is having it. Where do truth and tradition intersect? How far back to we have to go (pre-reformation, pre-catholic church, back to the apostles, imo) to find truth w/out tradition?
Next you’ll have me going on about how many of the founding fathers were actually Christ followers…
(apologies for the rambly comment…)
“founding fathers were actually Christ followers…”
Yes. That.
Um. YEAH.
As one who, from childhood, ate history like it was ice cream, I have a really hard time when people start with the whole “our Christian founding fathers” deal. Deism does not equal following Jesus, etc…
{slow standing clap}
Yes.
I did see that post, Arianne, and LOVED it. I came late to the wonder of MLK but he is so highly respected all around the world. I haven’t read that work yet but have already added it to my queue. And don’t worry – you weren’t the only one using “smilies” – they’re my downfall. I just can’t help it.
I’ll wait for your article on the founding fathers and Christianity – that’s out of my realm of knowledge!
-S.
I’m an International Relations student in Canada (hello, fellow Canadian!), and American foreign policy is one of the longest running jokes within the department, for professors and students alike. I’ve met quite a few Americans, and most are very sweet. But I’ve also met the ones who take it to the extreme, and their country is their god. Unfortunately, they are the ones that create the opinion people have of Americans internationally.
In International Relations, there’s a theory called Democratic Peace Theory that basically promotes spreading democracy (often through the use of force), with the idea that democratic nations do not go to war with each other. But that’s always seemed a little odd to me – going to war to prevent war.
I’m not really sure what I’m trying to say here… it’s a complex question. But one thing I’ve learned is that there’s not necessarily a right or wrong way of doing things, and forcing others to change isn’t always the best idea. The American culture is the way that it is, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But there’s not necessarily anything wrong with other cultures, either, as long as they’re praising God too. People do it in different ways. And they’re all God’s children.
Yay! Another Canadian! When we moved back home to Canada, my husband was taken aback by the height of anti-Americanism that was current (this was in 2005) and felt very judged and marginalised if you can imagine. People would hear that he was American and immediately put him in a box (the typical “obnoxious war-mongering American etc.”). It’s settled down over the years but yes, that theory of Democratic peace is deeply flawed. So nice to “meet” you!
-S.
Oh my. Apologies for being the one goober using smileys in the comments…
Oy.
I grew up in a Christian school that put a high value on patriotism. I am married into a very patriotic family. VERY patriotic.
I have grieved over Sunday’s spent in church with more mentions of America than Jesus, more patriotic songs than worshipful hymns.
Yes, I am thankful that I live in a country where I have many blessings. I recognize that those blessings come from God.
Having that kind of a conversation with my husband’s family, has gotten me labeled un-patriotic. (it has also earned me no end of dirty looks and astonished stares). It got worse when I didn’t see the war as a mandate from God and voiced my concerns about the attitude that many churches were taking toward it.
Also, I don’t say the pledge of allegiance to the flag in church.
One last thing (going a little off topic….but it kind of fits) I extend my pro-life ethic that includes the grown-ups to the question of the death penalty as well.
That’s interesting about the pledge of allegience! We don’t have those types of pledges said here (when I was a kid, we did have to sing “God Save the Queen” though in addition to our national anthem!) but yes, I would struggle with that as well.
And yes, I’m the same way about capital punishment. We don’t have the death penalty and I believe it’s inhumane. Another good topic to discuss!
-S.
You’ve been abundantly sensitive in broaching this issue (in typical Canadian form).
I was born and raised in America, and probably would have written about the same topic with much less caution. (My culture doesn’t mind offending someone else, obviously).
But seriously, if we are speaking as Christ followers here, we have to acknowledge the level of idolatry at play in the American church. It is absolutely astounding to me how much faith and worship is directed toward nationalism in a variety of ways. We worship personal freedom instead of self-sacrificial love. We worship democracy instead of loving abandonment to the Lord of Lords. We put our faith in economic ideologies that are inconsistent with the example and teaching of both Jesus and the early church. Above all, we worship ourselves… in that we actually create an idolatrous image of God-as-American, rather than conforming to God as He is. Like I said, I don’t mind being offensive. The truth is often offensive and provocative – just like Jesus.
That said, I know that there are a lot of sincere believers in uber-patriotic churches. And much of their worldview and manner of worship has been shaped by their context and the teaching they’ve received. But eventually, we have to follow Jesus for ourselves, not as products of a particular cultural-religious environment. We have to discover who He is and who He is not – through personal relationship and direct experience of Him. And when we do that, most of us find He is different than we thought Him to be.
I meant to say, “We create an idolatrous image of God-as-American, conforming *Him* to our image instead of conforming *ourselves* to His image.” Just to clarify.
Strong words, Sarah. But true, I believe. your last few lines there about needing to follow Jesus for ourselves, not as products of a particular cultural-religious environment are very, very true. I did actually come of voting age in a rather conservative pocket of Canada (Calgary at the height of the Reform movement) so I had to have the same encounters with the risen Christ. And it did lead me to a different place – politically, religiously etc. – than I had thought at the beginning.
-S.
Not only a Canadian but a fellow Calgarian, too! Small world!
I’ve gotten so tired of the “American Christian” mentality, that I didn’t even read this post when you first posted it. I already knew what you would describe. I grew up that way, and I no longer think that America is a chosen nation or that I have to be a republican to be a “true christian”. As an American currently living in Canada, it’s beena relief to get away from it all.
I think I am at the same place. I am in my fourties. I have always been taught that America is great, and I have had a great life here. But, I guess for a couple of years, I have come to see more that it about God and His plan for the whole world, not just us. I don’t claim to know exactly what God’s plan and timing is for all the Nations that rise and fall throughout history and before Christ comes again. I am just learning it is NOT ALL ABOUT THE USA…..just my little thoughts.
I am not a history expert, but if we get into Nationalism, are we no better than other countries, including Germany a few decades ago……just wondering.
Hi. Hope I can join in on this conversation for just a bit. I just wanted to say – I’m not a Christian, but I’ve been thinking about these issues and many others for some time now. Never mind how I came across this blog – that would be a long and boring story – but reading this post, and especially the comments, made me more optimistic, if that’s the right word (it’s late and the words aren’t coming). As someone who doesn’t go to church these are exactly the kinds of very obvious contradictions that make one want to stay away, even if they aren’t the whole truth and there are good things going on inside. Reading the intelligent discussion here was refreshing. I wish I could find these kinds of conversations in “real life”, not just online. Hope I didn’t offend anyone – I just wanted to say, this was great and I think I’ll be coming back. Thank you.